Did you feel like the movie was the greatest thing you've ever done?

Now? Yes. You don't say, "I'm going to be great, that would not be right.

A person had said that there was great chance that between '96 and '01, that he'd been speaking with Lars about possibly putting something on film and hoping to do possibly a documentary in that direction and you all said, "no, not a chance." What changed between then and them walking into that first therapy session and you saying, you know…

Well, I was no stranger to therapy. I had been in therapy years before on my own. Yeah, you know, that's kind of some of the first times I've been hearing that. You know, Lars likes to keep in contact with more of the business side of things. He really enjoys that, I really don't. I just, you know… "Hi, how's it going?", and then I go hang out with my friends. I don't live for the business part; I live for the creative music part. But he finds creation in the business part, and that's great. I'm glad there is someone in the band that does do that. We filmed a year and a half, (A Year and a Half In The Life of Metallica), I think is what it is called, for the Black Album. We'd have cameras around before, and I just kind of took it as, well that's what is going to happen. You know, it's time for this now, and uh…

Even though you were in the middle of therapy?

Yeah, that we were. [laughter]

I don't know which, my memory is horrible. If the filming started or Jason leaving started, was the first… I don't know, it all kind of really was pretty blurry for me at the beginning there, but it all started happening about the same time, and we had no idea what awesome footage we'd be getting. You know we didn't know we'd embark on a midlife crisis or a maturing of a band, or whatever you want to call it. You can't plan it. You know, this was a promo tool. It is so cool that it has turned into much more.

Why were you acceptive of, or why did you give the filmmakers, I mean, you basically invested in the film. And there must have been a decision that you made and the band made together to take, to make it less of a promo film, even with your reticence and what was that decision?

Well, besides us all being insane, I think we saw what potential it had. We saw how special it was, and you know, every day I questioned it. Especially after rehab, is this good for me? I don't know if this is good for me or not.

It's very risky.

This could derail my recovery, you know, but actually it did accelerate the process I think. Having the cameras there, you know, like a, you know, lie detector. If you chose to see it that way. Or, there were other times when you were just so comfortable with the camera you wanted to play up for it. You know the other side of this. But, when you are in your shit, you don't want a camera. This giant eyeball staring at you, you know. But we got a little more used to it, and the more, you know, the more comfortable we got, I think the time when I came out and I was learning to be more assertive about myself, saying you know, "I don't know If this is going to be good for me!", and they all just said, "You know, at any point, you can just say stop filming." OH really? I can say that, and I won't be letting everyone down, or I won't be the wimp or something? Even just knowing that was comforting, and I was able to keep going with it.

Before rehab, at least in the film, it seems that you really resisted the therapy and you didn't really trust Phillip at first, and what was going through your mind in those first sessions and looking back on it, do you think that rehab made you more ready for the filming?

Oh, I think so too, but yeah. Well there's a part of me that wants to say that the movie doesn't represent me well. The beginning. [laughter] You know. I was not afraid of the therapy, I think the parts where they started to highlight my kind of, hmm, this is… You know, that's when it started to become more about us. And ok, Jason's done; now we are starting to look at us. Wait, I'm not sure if I like this. You know. What is Phil doing here, and uh? But, you know, I always had certain trust issues around people and being someone in a spotlight and being pulled multiple ways and manipulated, the radar goes up and your... nyah, check this guy out. It took a while to gain some trust with him, and you know, eventually we all felt comfortable enough to…

How comfortable do you feel about now having been on screen with audiences that you have no direct contact with and you can't say what you just said to us about how you felt about it? How do you feel about it being out there in the public domain? Does that make you feel uncomfortable?

Well, there's a part of me that's still uncomfortable and a little unsure, you know, it's the unknown, you are really kind of blowing up the image of what you used to be, but it's, you know, that's still us too. You get on stage and that is us. [laughter] The music makes us do these things, you know. But this is the other extreme, you know, people know us as the crazy rocker guys the staunch mighty Metallica, the others. This is the exact opposite extreme. You know, we don't sit around like this every day and analyze our breakfast. We are somewhere in the middle, that is where life is. But we are freaking addicts. We are extremists, we have to go these lengths to find out where the middle is, you know. But I'm more and more comfortable with it. The more people know about me, the more comfortable I'll be in the world I think, and feel less alienated.

Is there anything that you would have done differently in the last ten years? Anything you would have done differently?

I can't say, because everything has brought us to a different point, and I don't drive. I am not, you know, the path for me and the path everyone I feel they intertwine and they happen for a reason, and I wouldn't want to change anything because we are here. And we are still here, and uh, I guess the only thing I would want to change is from my past my old behavior and my past in just degrading behavior. I've hurt people, and it has affected others and their lives, and I hope it hasn't done in such a way that it's is really damaged them.

Are you religious?

Religion is, religion used to really scare me. Because I grew up in such a religious household. My dad was like the equivalent of a minister in the Christian Science church and it was really, I was force fed religion and didn't understand it, didn't like it. I was the only kid in my Sunday School Class, it was a chore to get me to go every time, you know. I couldn't understand what everyone was so emotional about, and I felt defective. Everyone else got it, I didn't. So I chose to just deny it and move on from it, and once my dad left and my mother died, you know, believing in this certain religion and I really started to blame God, or whatever, and I just denied it. I am grateful now that I had that upbringing because I can relate to a higher power, and you know, I don't really identify with any particular religion but it's the connection with a higher power then I'm not in control. I don't have to do everything. And that comes from the control addict in me so it might be more dramatic in me then others, but being able to let go of that is huge.

So the cross tattoo just where your shirt opens, that is more a metal symbol then a religious symbol?

Well I like symbolism. I've always loved symbolism. I came up with the damn logo, you know, that ninja star, I've always loved the association with things, and this represents a family. You know, I don't know, there's something about. I've always. You know if I wasn't playing music I'd be doing, you know graphic design or something. And I get to do both which is awesome, and so... Symbolism is pretty big for me, and the cross for me represents balance and connection with a higher power, and you know, it can mean many things for everybody else, but tattoo wise I have St. Michael, which to me, that's pretty huge. Facing your demons and I love those stories. I love some of the religious stories because whether they are real or not they are awesome inspiring stories.

Having gone through the extremes, both in life and also maybe musically, and now finding a center that is good for the band, how do you think its affected the music? I mean, are you as proud of this new album as you are.. I mean, purely artistically? Say like, Master of Puppets or Ride the Lightning?

They all represent great milestones in our lives and St. Anger I think I was the most present for, so I remember it best and I feel most strongly about it. The fact that we all stepped up, the three of us, and with Bob Rock, we battled on and made something great out of something that could have been just disaster. We stepped up, it's a great human story and I'm really proud of us. I had these rings made for the four of us to show our kind of brotherhood, and we survived this thing whether the records popular or not does not matter you know. We survived it, and it means a lot.

Will you invite the filmmakers back into the studio for your next...

Ahh, I don't think we need to update the world every album, on our progress in life, no. I'd love to make a record without cameras.

What is the best part about being sober, and the most challenging?

Remembering things, well most things. Enjoying the crowd. I mean, I know why I'm there, on stage is so amazing. Um, I get feelings that I never had before. My hair would stand up, I mean really, literally just stand up and I mean, it just did thinking about it. Man, the connection is so amazing. I see it in their eyes and I know why I'm there. All the other shit on tour that was a distraction that was why I went on tour before. Kind of the gigging got in the way of partying, you know, and I don't' know where it flopped but it took a long time for it to get to that point, but now it's switched back to really why I'm there. That's playing on stage, no doubt.

That actually almost ties into what I was going to ask. You have that huge following, do you feel you may have left them behind a bit by discovering this new gentler more self-aware side of yourself. Do you think that is what they want?

I don't care. I do not care. This is me, and this is the best me I can be right now and you know what, if they see something inspirational in that good, if they see weakness behind it, if they see someone who's addressed demons and become more of a whole person, then good too. You know, I um, I always wished my dad would have maybe done that, and said. You know, when I was in the war I was afraid, or something, just something human. Not so [grunts]. So I think it's good.

Any connection with Phil?

Uh, as far as working with him, the band hasn't. You know, he came out the first couple of weeks of the tour to kind of massage us into the road and get us you know, into that, you know it was a different atmosphere out there, all of the sudden it's like we all disappear into our closets of hell. I think individually people have met up with him to work with, you know, whatever certain struggles in their lives so he's there if needed, but if not, he's not as a like a.. It's not an emergency that he has to be there to keep us together.

In the film, about that bit with Dave Mustaine and Lars was talking to him and he said that there's no person that's missing. Were you ever able to address that personally with Dave? Those issues with Dave like what he was talking about. Were you ever able to get back?

Not yet. Not yet, and there's no reason not to because him and I share a lot of struggle, a lot of similar path and really dealing with perfectionism and just beating ourselves up. You know the critics in our head that are just so mean to us. So we share a lot, and I see in that part how much struggle he still goes though and how much he really wanted to dump on Lars and how much I wanted to be there and protect my little brother there, you know. Um, but I'm glad I wasn't there. It was good that they had, I mean it is an extremely revealing scene for both of them. I think that Lars finally doesn't know what to do. Lars finally isn't in control and the camera is there, it's great! I mean, to see him that way, to see that human part of him and for Dave too, to really just let it out and then you know, maybe him be able to see that wow, if he could see that. I hope he watches it. You know. Because when I watch scenes of me it's like, Dude! I would not put up with that. I would not be in a room with you. You know. It's a great mirror.

Have you gauged an audience's reaction to it, like have you sat in on a screening?

Ah, we sat in on one screening. We sat and watched the movie, you know, it was really difficult to watch the movie. It's… You know, it got better, but now it is just difficult because I've seen it a bunch of times. You know, it kind of went past that point, but I learned a lot from it, and you know the part where people were laughing at my huge traumatic moment, that's ok. You know, maybe it's that time when they are uncomfortable too. The 'God, that's uncomfortable' moment in the movie. You know. And man, I love, I loved the.. For some reason I love the fear of that unknown of the uncomfortable situations. Wow, it's powerful if you let it be. You could let it rule you, you know. It happens on stage all the time. You know, look at all these people I'm going to forget the lyrics and guess what I do, forget the lyrics. You know.

So that's the kind of artistic equivalent of stage diving?

Yeah, yeah, it's like…

Someone will catch you?

Hopefully someone will catch you, and you know it's not the School of Rock, you know.

James, how do you feel about the democracy now in the band in the songwriting process, in the uh, maybe in the overall decisions now compared to you and Lars just pounding it out in the basement compared to like bringing it to the band?

Well, I love it, as long as I have the last say. In a way that is kind of true. That lyrically, I kind of do have the last say, and they trust me on that, and I have to sing it, and I have to relate to it, and. But I'm real open to them writing it. If you are in the band you can write lyrics. If you are a therapist you can therapute us.

What does the performance enhancement person do, because that is his other title isn't it? What does that mean exactly?

You know what; I don't know what the titles… Enhancement Coach? Performance Enhancement Coach, um, psychologist with no license. Whatever, it doesn't matter, he was a gift. He taught us things, he was a father figure, for me especially. He taught me lots of stuff, I don't' care if he has a degree in whatever, I learned things from bums on the street. You know, you don't have to be an established person to learn things, to learn from them, so. He is what he is.

It seems that just from seeing you guys live now as opposed to before rehab and the group therapy it seems like a whole new, like a new band. Did the performance coach, like a vocal coach, because it seems like you can hold out the notes longer and stronger, affect of the vocals more than being sober?

Mental health has a lot to do with your physical health. I know that. When I was in bad moods all the time my body felt bad, when I was worrying about how my throat was going to survive or if you booked ten gigs in a row, I'll do it, but it's just because I don't want to let everyone down. Now I'll say, "Hey, I can't do ten in a row." Two in a row is max, and that's it. So, there's a combination of being assertive and getting what I need for best performance, but also up here, just knowing that man, you're doing good. You're doing as good as you can do and having fun on tour had a lot to do with being able to perform well and even when my throat was not doing so good I could get out there and do what I had to do and also feeling like a unit. It always felt like a struggle with Lars, you know, could we cut a couple of songs because my throat is not doing good and "No, we've got to give it to the kids". You know, it was always a struggle. That was, you know, without that strict [schedule?] I could do 20 songs. You know, it was just being heard that was, I was struggling with.

Those scenes in the prison, how did that come about with the... Within the penitentiary?

The prison.

Where was that?

The prison scenes were after the record was made and we were just starting ot tour. We had just gotten Rob in the band.

And where were they actually filmed?

That was San Quentin Prison.

Okay.

And what an amazing experience and we played a show there. We filmed our video "St. Anger" there. We were there two days. Going in and... Well not in and out all day, but we went in and we came out. Boy, what… I think everyone can benefit from going and visiting a prison. I saw myself there. I'd had premonitions before that I was going to be in prison and I was. But I got to play it, I was the guy on the stage, which was amazing and to connect with those guys struggling guys, but there was a lot of amazing stories in there that you just, you couldn't make up those stories.

There's a real low point in the film, maybe it's the low point when Lars and Kirk are wondering if you will ever really return and you are doing the healing you need to do. Um, when you were away, did you ever feel like you may never rejoin the band or that it was done?

When I left I, I had no reason to not come back. I am going to go away and fix myself, I'll be right back. When I was going, what things started happening with me, I had no idea what was going to happen. It wasn't scheduled. I mean, it was pretty interesting how I rock and rolled non-scheduled chaotic man Lars was pretty worried about the schedule, and I was, you know, I had to unplug. I had to completely unplug from it all. My family, the band, everything to find out who I was because being plugged into the band I've always had that you know, you're the guy from Metallica. I had to find out that if Metallica quit, you know, if Metallica was done, would I die? Can I still survive, would life be worth living all of that. And it was, and it took that to be healthy to come back. It's one of those kind of ironic things, having to leave home to see it and unfortunately for them, my path started and they might not have been ready for their own path, so it involved them and I can see their struggle and it still baffles me how resentful they got that I was going and taking care of myself and how personally they took that, but I understand.

They can't be resentful now though?

Well they were fearful, they didn't... You know, my actions were affecting them and their career and they were at the mercy of my insanity. You know, how crazy is that and they didn't know how to deal with that and it took a long time for them to you know, they bonded together and really kind of helped themselves through it, but until I came back, and they did, you know, even then it took a long time to get my puzzle piece to fit again in there.

How much of you going ahead with the taping of the movie and making of the movie had to do with okay, I can show people if I can conquer my addictions they can? How much of it was for your children to look back on and really get to know you?

Yeah, well the initial decision to go into rehab, into a facility, not just visit a therapist like I had before was somewhat made by my wife, by throwing me out of the house. Saying, "You need to go check into a hospital, a facility, something. You need to get some help." So, me losing my family in a way, it took that to have to go there. I went there for my family. I didn't want my, I didn't want my children to grow up without a dad. I didn't want to repeat that cycle and uh, at first it was for my kids. Slowly it became for me and the more I realize that without helping me the family won't… You know, I can't just... Please let me back, you know, try to control, micro-manage my life outside of it, just the more I tried to do that the less it worked. So letting go and trusting what the process had to be was great advice but it was hard to live it.