Some people say this band's works is dull hysterical pseudo-music, while others call them the only original artists in present-day prog metal. Anyway, nobody is indifferent to what Pain Of Salvation is doing. Last year, the Swedes reached new heights in their career, releasing the fourth album "Remedy Lane" and doing a very successful European tour as openers for Dream Theater. These are just some of the themes touched upon in our conversation with the band's leader, singer and guitarist Daniel Gildenlowe. I've just heard your latest album "Remedy Lane" and I think it's great. But you know, everybody was waiting for "The Perfect Element Part 2", why didn't you do it? We were discussing already when we released Part 1 that maybe we wait another album before Part 2. By that time we released three albums, and we thought that releasing the fourth album also a part of the "Perfect Element" concept may be a bit unrepresentative, because we would have half of our material under a single concept. I think a stronger reason was that we knew that we would do the Dream Theater tour already last summer, and we wanted to have a new album out, and there were risks of not finishing "The Perfect Element Part 2" on time because it will involve other musicians and probably a symphonic orchestra. It was more risky to try to fulfill one of those albums than an album where you can rely completely on yourself and the band. As far as I understand, you are going to continue working on "The Perfect Element Part 2". When can we expect it - will it be your next album or maybe we will have to wait for a longer time? The idea is that it will be the next album, but we never know for sure. It depends so much on cooperation with other people that will be involved in that album. We'll have to see. It will probably be a bit different from the other things we've done. OK, let's pass on to "Remedy Lane". Can you tell me a bit about the concept of the album? It's the most personal and intimate concept so far. It's based a lot on autobiographical events and experiences, especially the crisis that I had last summer that involved both me and my relations with my wife. The concept is pretty much built on how that went down, what happened, the difficulties in trying to find yourself and find your way back into something that you don't really know what it is anymore. It's really personal in that sense. But I think it also relates to anybody who has ever been in relation to another human being and that that would probably include most of the people on the earth. (laughs) I see, I guess I can relate to that as well. Who did the album cover this time? It was me again. I've made all the artwork for this album and "The Perfect Element Part 1" as well. Who are the people pictured here, is it you? It's kind of a symbol of the two in the relation, so I guess if you're looking at it autobiographically it would be me and my wife, but it's more of a symbol of a human relation, I think. The reason why I did it like that is I wanted to have the human aspect and the natural, organic aspect balanced with a structural, emotional, a little bit broken aspect of that. I think it turned out pretty much the way I wanted it, even though I struggled a lot to find the right language for the album. I mean the graphic language. I did like 39 other covers before that one. The thing that caught my attention at once is the phrase on the cover: "To be honest I don't know what I'm looking for." What does that mean? It's a theme of the concept - going through all these problems and trying to find yourself. I experienced it myself: suddenly I felt very happy when we were in Budapest for a while, and I realized that I hadn't been so happy for quite a while, and that's not really a good sign. So I tried to figure out what the problem was and what made me feel happy, whether it was meeting with other people or something in myself or something with the place itself. I tried to find it out and I thought I knew what I was looking for in a way, but the further into this personal quest I ventured, the more I realized that I had no idea what I was looking for anymore. The further I went the more lost I could feel in a way. I guess "Remedy Lane" was a difficult album to make. Am I right? It depends on what you mean by "difficult". Emotionally it's more demanding to write about these intense things, but on the other hand it's easier, because you know them so well, you can relate to them. Sometimes everything was like a big flow, like a natural flow, but at some points you could walk right into the wall because no matter how you tried to put it, it didn't come out the way you wanted it to be. I think I experienced both these feelings during the writing and recording of this album. Isn't it scary to expose your feelings to the entire world this way? Isn't it making you more vulnerable in a way? Yeah, in a way it is, but first of all, I feel that music and creating is about honesty, and I try to be honest as much as I can. Another thing that has helped me when I've been thinking about it is that there is no such thing as a true autobiography, because you're subjective, you're the one experiencing everything, and I think people are aware of that. Also, the first thing you do when you wanna write something autobiographical is picking up what you wanna have in there and what you don't wanna have. You wanna focus on some specific area, and with that decision, you're excluding so much, and with this decision, you're very far from a true or full picture or image of yourself or the event. Moreover, when you work with that artistically, you will consciously or subconsciously change things. I am the sender of information in a way, and every receiver of information out there will receive it differently. It means that no matter how hard I would try to make it completely true, it would be still something else, not the truth. The only thing that I can be sure of is that people will experience it differently than I have experienced it, which means that I don't feel the same fear of exposing myself, because I am exposing everybody else, and every listener is exposing himself through the concept. So I think we're sharing some kind of exposure in a way, and sharing an integrity as well. Were there any guest musicians involved in the recording on the album? No, we've done everything ourselves, so everything is really stripped down, even though I don't think that people will feel it that way. Everything is recorded by us, and we're able to reproduce everything live if we want to. "The Perfect Element Part 1" had a limited edition with two CDs. Is the new album going to have a limited edition or a Japanese bonus track? There is a Japanese bonus track, actually, this song is a part of the concept, it is called "Thorn Clown". We discussed making a limited edition, but just before finishing up the limited edition we felt that first of all, we were very pressured time-wise and we felt that we'd rather just wait and maybe do a limited edition later on. We didn't want to make a limited edition just for the sake of it, and people would have to put out a lot of extra money for something that isn't really worth it. We'd rather wait and be sure that we can fill our limited edition with valuable stuff. We'll have to see but nothing is planned for now anyway. I know that you have done a tour with Transatlantic. Judging from your interviews, Transatlantic is not the band that I expected you to like and to play with... (laughs) I heard from the bass player of Flower Kings that they were looking for somebody and that my name has been mentioned and if could phone Roine Stolt (the guitar player of Flower Kings and Transatlantic - ed.) to talk with him. That's what I did. I had never heard the material, so I found the first Transatlantic album, listened to it, and Roine sent me the other albums. It's not exactly my type of music, but they have a lot of interesting stuff going on, especially some parts of some songs are really good. I think I prefer that to much of standard progressive metal music that feels really narrow-minded in a way today. I felt it can be a nice experience to do that, to see how things work in that band, it was good, I think. I've interviewed Roine once upon a time and I got an impression that his ideas are not as fully appreciated in Transatlatic as ideas of other band members. You've spent some time in Transatlantic and you know the relations inside the band, did you get that impression? (hesitatingly) Yeah, especially on a more visionary level. I think if he'd make a music idea it may be as appreciated as those of the others, but I don't know, I've never seen their writing process. But I could feel that Roine and Mike Portnoy are really counterparts, they are truly at opposite ends of the idea how music is experienced and performed. I could really feel the tension in that way, Roine is much more exploring music and playing with music, he improvises more, he likes improvisation much more. Mike Portnoy is much more structured. Both of these visions have their flaws and their advantages, and I think that Roine could deal with Mike a bit better than Mike could deal with Roine. Are you involved in any other side projects, are you going to play with somebody else outside Pain Of Salvation? The only thing that I've done is that I recorded some vocals for an Italian project called "The Genius" that involves a lot of different singers. I will play one of the lead parts. That project will last over three albums. It was basically because I thought it would be fun and a bit relieving to do something else for a change. It didn't take much energy to just record that, a bit more than a day. I've only heard the two songs that I've been participating in, so it will be interesting to see what it is like. But that's more in the prog metal style, I think. Bands like Flower Kings, Spock's Beard, Dream Theater, etc. have at least one live album, some of them already have several live albums. Transatlantic released a live CD right after the first studio record. Do Pain Of Salvation have any plans to make a live album? I think being in the music industry you have a feeling that a live album is a very good way of earning money without having to do very much. It's like making an album without having to make an album, in a way. We'll have to see, we have been asked to do a live record, that's the usual way it happens - you're asked by your label, "Couldn't you make a live album that will be financially very good?" And most people do that. I think the Flower Kings is one band that's really suitable for a live album, while progressive metal in general is not really live-album music. It can only get worse. But I think that we can make a live album that has something special, because I've noticed that our music comes across very well in a live situation. On the other hand, while transferring that into a fixed medium, the intention may be lost any way. I was never one of the live album guys, I don't think that I own one single live album that I would happily put on in my CD player. But it depends on the combination, if all the other guys want to make a live album, I won't say no because of any principles that I have. Nothing is planned now anyway. The next question is natural for me because I've never been to your live shows and don't know what they are like. Do live versions of your songs differ greatly from studio versions or do you try to stick to the record? It depends a bit. Usually we play as close to the album as possible, but it can differ, sometimes we develop songs after the recording, so they are actually a bit different in a live version. We never strip down a song because we're unable to play it, we always wanna be able to play it as on the album. If we change it, it's because we want to change it, not because we have to. We have done a few different versions at some points, and I really liked that as well. That is one thing I appreciate with, say, Tori Amos - if you've heard the album and seen her live, there will be two completely different interpretations of the songs, which is something that really adds to the live experience, and that is the reason for seeing a live show. The worst thing you can do is to play songs as close to the album as possible and stand still on stage, because that will be just like the album version but a little bit worse and with audience disturbing it. (laughs) I think you should definitely add something for a live situation. Now let's go back to the past a little bit. Before Pain Of Salvation you had a band called Reality. What kind of music was it playing? I think we started in the rock'n'roll area, probably a bit like a mixture of Kiss and early Led Zeppelin or something like that. Even though I hadn't heard them by then, looking back you can see some references. Maybe some Bob Dylan and some Beatles were there as well. And then it changed gradually, at some points you could see some Motley Crue tendencies, some King Diamond tendencies, Queensryche tendencies, a short Yngwie Malmsteen period… We were trying out different ways and approaches before finding something personal and original. Are there any recordings from those days? Yeah, there are some recordings, I even had the original rolls, but I have no idea where they are! (laughs) They are lost somewhere, but I know we have them. I have some recordings from when I was 12-13 years old as well. So you're not planning to release them in some way, right? No, probably not. We've been discussing several times the idea to make a "history of Pain of Salvation" album, that will be a very interesting thing to do five or six albums from the start, to re-record songs from our entire career. But it's not something that we have time for now anyway, and I don't know whether there will be any interest from the audience. We'll have to see. How did it happen that the first Pain Of Salvation album "Entropia" was first released in Japan and quite later in Europe? It was very natural because the Japanese label answered within two weeks from us sending the demo, so we just thought, "Why wait for European labels to wake up?" We recorded the album and released it on the Avalon label and waited for offers from Europe. You mention war a lot of times in the lyrics on that album. Time and again I come across bands who actually praise war in their songs. What's your opinion about that kind of propaganda and what do you personally think about war? I think war is a complete failure of human existence, the biggest evidence that we have reached nowhere so far. And the strange thing is that it's accepted and glorified so much every year. Big leaders of big countries can still say without shame in their bodies that war is a solution to any problem. That goes beyond my understanding, because it's about killing people, that's all it is. And if you think that killing people is a solution than you don't really belong in this world. And there's no solution to that problem either because I can't kill them, right? (laughs) I have to accept that. If someone asks me, "If somebody killed your family and you would have the chance to kill that one will you do that?" Of course I would! And that's the problem, isn't it? I don't doubt that my instincts will take over because I would be in complete rage, but what does that prove? If I am put in an awkward position I will probably eat my own shit, but what does that prove? That we should all eat shit? I mean, it's such a ridiculous thing, to start with, and I think that war is the same thing - strange and illogical arguments that don't really fit when you're looking closer at them. And usually it's just somebody should have handled a problem a long time ago, but he was out of hand, and war was a solution, but I've yet to see a war that has come up with a solution of any kind. You know, Russia is always in a state of war with somebody. It's a question I think a lot of about, and I wanted to know your opinion. Yes, and it's so annoying because you wanna say, "No, you can't do that! I forbid you to do that!" But usually you don't have the power to do that, the only thing you can do is work for it slowly and surely and hope that in time things will change. Your brother is now playing in the band, and rock music has seen a lot of cases when brothers are fighting each other a lot. What is the situation in your family, how do you get along? Christopher is definitely the one in the band with a temper. We've had our conflicts but they're not really serious and we always work them out. But I think if anybody in the band has a conflict it's usually me and him. Nevertheless, it's not on the Gallagher level. (laughs) So far Pain Of Salvation has just released one single, "Ashes". Why only one single and why this particular song? We're in a music style where labels very rarely want to make singles, because they don't help very much. It's a different thing when you play pop music and you release a single half a year before releasing the album. There you're releasing singles to see how well it works. But I'm glad to have at least one single anyway, it was kinda funny to make a single. (laughs) You've mentioned the record label a few times. Are you satisfied with Inside Out or maybe you are planning to move to a bigger label? We don't have any plans to leave any of the labels we're working with, because they're really doing their best to make things function as well as possible, and they believe in us, so I think that is the most important thing. The music industry is very harsh in itself, and I can really say that being a musician you are the only one that may not get paid. The labels have their expenses and they may say they have to cover the expenses before you can get your money. And that is basically a problem, because you're at the bottom of a foot chain even though you're the one creating the stuff. I think we're lucky to have the labels that we do have. The reason why I am asking is that labels are often associated with a particular type of music, and Inside Out is often associated with the music that you don't feel yourself belonging to. Isn't it a problem? Yeah, it could be a problem, but I think that Inside Out wants to be wider as well. They are as stuck in the label just as we are, probably. I don't think that Inside Out really wants to focus fully on progressive metal music, they wanna have a wider range. Not that they wanna go pop, though. So I think that we have an understanding. But yeah, it's a problem. On your second album "One Hour By The Concrete Lake" you mention Lake Karachai. Is it the real lake in Southern Russia where a chemical factory is disposing of its wastes or is it just an imaginary concept? It's a real lake, I've read about it, about all of the radiation that was dumped into the lake. All of the "One Hour By The Concrete Lake" concept is based on a lot of literature that I read while doing piece-work studies and nuclear physics studies. The goal is to look at different topics and how they're related. At that point, in the end of the 1980s and in the beginning of the 1990s, it was one of the most polluted areas of the world, according to World Watch magazine, so the concept is based on that. I found the image something that you can relate to. There was a problem, there were a lot of factors, figures and essays, and you wanna put them into something you can relate to. A lake devastated and then covered with concrete is something that you at once get a very strong image of. I am very fond of your lyrics. Have you ever thought about writing a book or a movie script? Yes, of course. (laughs) I'd like to do that. But that means getting into another nearly impossible business. (laughs) I think I will definitely write books or a book later on in life, because I have it in me, it's just waiting there probably. But as for now, I don't have the time for it. You surprised me and a lot of other people when you said in an interview two years ago that you liked Limp Bizkit… (Daniel cracks) What is the band that impressed you most lately? The thing is that no band has impressed me very much lately(laughs), which is a problem, because I was once asked the question about my favorite album of 2001 and my favorite band of 2001 by a magazine. First of all, I'm having problems separating those two: can I say that I have a favorite band but another band has made my favorite album? That would sound strange. But the other thing was that I couldn't come up one single good album of 2001 from my personal standpoint. I think I ended up with Linkin Park or something like that, which is not my favorite. It's a good album, but it's not a great one. The same is with Tool's "Lateralus", which is a good album but not the one that I will remember on the day I die and not the one I will mention to generations to come. The last artist I was impressed by was Sammy Davis Jr. because I saw a documentary about him and managed to get hold of some material that he has been doing. That is really impressive physically, artistically and vocally as well. Especially being a black man of his age when he was struggling at his best and being together with Frank Sinatra who is, to be honest, not as good a singer as Sammy Davis Jr., but he was white and he was famous. I would have been angry as f**k if I were Sammy Davis Jr., but he did his part very well, and that really impresses me. That is not a reason to many people, but that was a reason for me because I was kind of revisiting that artist in a way. Everybody is asking you about the influences you've had as a vocalist. I'll rather ask you who influenced your guitar playing. It's a difficult question. I think my last influence guitar-wise was when I was 16 years old or something like that. After that I never really listened to what the guitar player is, basically because I don't find it very interesting (laughs), especially the pure solo guitarists that are around. Basically they just bore me. I'm trying to make the guitar more part of the music and trying to make the soloing part of the music in a more subtle way that having those kind of in-your-face solos and overusing the guitar all the time. I think that I'm more influenced by the music in general when it comes to guitar playing than by any guitar player that is around today anyway. What do you think about the mp3 problem? I can just say that I downloaded most of the material for the soundtrack to the movie "Dark Crystal", which is a movie that I liked to see as a kid. I just downloaded it and it's so good so I'll buy the album. If hadn't found the mp3s, I wouldn't have bought the album. So they will sell at least one more album because of having illegal mp3s out there. It could be a problem but it could also be a good thing, and it's probably very hard to find the right balance. We've had response from so many people that started by downloading a mp3 song from Pain Of Salvation and got so hooked they ordered all of the albums. I think that it can be a teaser as well. As for myself, mp3 can never outrun ordinary audio files. I think there will be a problem when the equipment is so good that you can actually download a complete album in the ordinary .wav format, when you can just push a button to download 650 MB of information quickly, because then you will have full quality. I have not yet heard an mp3 that I find good enough, because they always have something very annoying on high frequencies, a kind of sound that you get on vocals when you use an auto-tuning system. I can usually feel the same strange sound on high frequencies of mp3. How do you see the future of Pain Of Salvation? Are there any artistic goals that you have not achieved? Do you imagine your life without Pain Of Salvation? I've been trying to imagine a life without Pain Of Salvation, but I don't have such imagination as yet. (laughs) It's really a part of me. The future for me is to just keep on the natural development and hope that more and more people will understand what we're doing and will appreciate the stuff we're doing. The Dream Theater tour is probably a good opportunity of reaching more people, because our basic problem is reaching people. We've had splendid reviews worldwide since our first album, and the people who hear us really like us, but the problem is that people don't hear us in the first place. OK, our interview is about to end, I wanna say thank you very much for talking to me, it was a great pleasure… Thank you, it was a pleasure for me too. There is just one more question - is there anything that you have to say to your Russian fans? Just please wait for us, we're trying the best we can to get somewhere else than the Central European area and the United States and Scandinavia. It's difficult to get things together for a tour, but I really hope that we will be able to come to Russia and play this year or next year. This is something I've wanted to do for the past 10 years probably. You'll see that all people available will come to the show when we come there and we'll try our best to come there. (laughs)